DSE: Interview: "We do not teach hatred" : Nasser Eddin Al Sha'a
INTERVIEW: “We do not teach hatred”: Nasser Eddin Al Sha’a
By Liam Stack
First Published: March 8, 2007
RAMALLAH: Nasser Eddin Al Sha’a is the Palestinian Minister of Education who was detained last fall during an Israeli sweep of West Bank members of the governing Islamist party.
A neatly shaven technocrat in a well-tailored suit, his term in office has been challenging. In addition to his arrest and perennial charges over alleged militancy in Palestinian school curricula, Al Sha’a has been faced with the financial hardship of Israeli sanctions on his government for its refusal to renounce violence, respect previously signed agreements, or recognize the Jewish state’s right to exist.
Al Sha’a sat down with The Daily Star Egypt’s Liam Stack to discuss some of these challenges.
DSE: Many people consider Palestinians to be some of the best-educated in the Arab world despite the persistence of the conflict with Israel. What impact has the conflict and Israeli policies in the Occupied Territories had on the Palestinian education system?
AS: We really suffer from Israeli actions in the area. There are hundreds of checkpoints which humiliate teachers and students and physically damage education institutions and infrastructure. In the past few years there has been over $220 million worth of damage to educational institutions, including housing buildings and the education ministry itself. There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who are subject to security measures and must pass through security gates to cross the wall and access schools on the other side.
But although we are living in a very, very dramatic situation, enrollment rates in our schools are over 98 percent. Compared to the rest of the Arab world, this is among the highest. We are one of only five countries in the Arab world to have an enrollment rate over 97 percent, and over 50 percent of the students in general education and at the university level are women.
Although we are in a very high-pressure atmosphere, we guarantee every Palestinian student access to quality education.
DSE: Critics of your government say that since Hamas took power school curriculums have been changed to promote both the party’s Islamist ideology and glorify its leaders. Are these allegations true?
AS: No they are not true. We use the same curriculum as before. When we talk about the Palestinian curriculum we must know that the curriculum taught before the Hamas government is the same curriculum taught now. We even continue to teach some things that were taught during the Israeli occupation.
We did not change one thing in the curriculum, or replace a single teacher. Palestinian teachers are not representatives of Fatah or Hamas. They are Palestinian teachers and they are committed to their missions.
Our curriculum is not secret or hidden. It’s all public, all you have to do is take a look. The printing of our text books is supported by the international community and the EU.
These allegations made against our curriculum is Israeli propaganda. We are not teaching our students hatred or propaganda against anybody, and studies by the UN and the international community support this.
DSE: Some critics point out that Palestinian schools do not teach students to accept Israel’s right to exist or use any maps of Israel in the classroom. How do you respond to critics who say that lessons like these contribute to attitudes that make peace more difficult?
AS: If questions about our curriculum are all a matter of Israel being on our maps, then these are not mature questions. Look at Israel itself, they do not put Palestine on their maps.
Recently when the Israeli Minister of Education proposed adding the Green Line to maps in Israeli textbooks, the whole campaign and debate around that became about political affiliations. How can they expect us to put them on our maps when they won’t even put their own internationally recognized borders on their own maps?
When we talk about Israel we must identify which Israel we are talking about. Israel 1948? Or Israel 1967? Or Israel after it has reoccupied the West Bank, or the Israel of the check points, or Israel behind the Wall? Let them recognize us and their own borders, and then we will do the same.
DSE: How has the occupation affected Palestinian children’s opinions of Israel and the outside world?
AS: To be honest with you, to our children Israel means one word — occupation. It means things like check points, killing, shooting, taking Palestinians to prison, keeping Palestinians from going to their jobs or to school. We’re not going to lie to you.
They are taking our lands, our water — believe me they are taking our water from right under us and they are selling it back to us! They are selling it back to us, and they are collecting our taxes and keeping the money, and spending it on Jerusalem.
Let them give us something. Olmert promised Abbas that he would remove some of the checkpoints to ease our lives, and he did nothing. And Palestinians know he did nothing. So let them do something.
DSE: Many political analysts say that Hamas’ victory at the polls can be seen largely as a rebuke of Fatah, and not an endorsement of Hamas. Why do you think that Hamas won the elections last year? Will the party attempt to make religion a larger part of Palestinian politics?
AS: When people win elections you can attribute this to different reasons. That could mean a program, an individual, or just popularity. But you must acknowledge that there was a winning program.
In addition to the parliamentary elections, there were elections at different institutions like universities. The results there were not that different than the results in parliament.
When talking about the relations between Fatah and Hamas you must know that these conflicts in Palestinian politics reflect international involvement. These tensions are a direct reaction to this international interference.
Hamas does not lead a religious government. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not religious groups, like some might imagine, they are political movements. These are revolutionary parties, not religious groups.
Here in Palestine, when you use the word ‘Islamic’ in your name, it does not mean you are a religious group. They are political groups, not Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, and are not importing religious ideas into politics.
That said, I think that when you are in power you should be more liberal. We are working on it and we hope to succeed.
By Liam Stack
First Published: March 8, 2007
RAMALLAH: Nasser Eddin Al Sha’a is the Palestinian Minister of Education who was detained last fall during an Israeli sweep of West Bank members of the governing Islamist party.
A neatly shaven technocrat in a well-tailored suit, his term in office has been challenging. In addition to his arrest and perennial charges over alleged militancy in Palestinian school curricula, Al Sha’a has been faced with the financial hardship of Israeli sanctions on his government for its refusal to renounce violence, respect previously signed agreements, or recognize the Jewish state’s right to exist.
Al Sha’a sat down with The Daily Star Egypt’s Liam Stack to discuss some of these challenges.
DSE: Many people consider Palestinians to be some of the best-educated in the Arab world despite the persistence of the conflict with Israel. What impact has the conflict and Israeli policies in the Occupied Territories had on the Palestinian education system?
AS: We really suffer from Israeli actions in the area. There are hundreds of checkpoints which humiliate teachers and students and physically damage education institutions and infrastructure. In the past few years there has been over $220 million worth of damage to educational institutions, including housing buildings and the education ministry itself. There are hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who are subject to security measures and must pass through security gates to cross the wall and access schools on the other side.
But although we are living in a very, very dramatic situation, enrollment rates in our schools are over 98 percent. Compared to the rest of the Arab world, this is among the highest. We are one of only five countries in the Arab world to have an enrollment rate over 97 percent, and over 50 percent of the students in general education and at the university level are women.
Although we are in a very high-pressure atmosphere, we guarantee every Palestinian student access to quality education.
DSE: Critics of your government say that since Hamas took power school curriculums have been changed to promote both the party’s Islamist ideology and glorify its leaders. Are these allegations true?
AS: No they are not true. We use the same curriculum as before. When we talk about the Palestinian curriculum we must know that the curriculum taught before the Hamas government is the same curriculum taught now. We even continue to teach some things that were taught during the Israeli occupation.
We did not change one thing in the curriculum, or replace a single teacher. Palestinian teachers are not representatives of Fatah or Hamas. They are Palestinian teachers and they are committed to their missions.
Our curriculum is not secret or hidden. It’s all public, all you have to do is take a look. The printing of our text books is supported by the international community and the EU.
These allegations made against our curriculum is Israeli propaganda. We are not teaching our students hatred or propaganda against anybody, and studies by the UN and the international community support this.
DSE: Some critics point out that Palestinian schools do not teach students to accept Israel’s right to exist or use any maps of Israel in the classroom. How do you respond to critics who say that lessons like these contribute to attitudes that make peace more difficult?
AS: If questions about our curriculum are all a matter of Israel being on our maps, then these are not mature questions. Look at Israel itself, they do not put Palestine on their maps.
Recently when the Israeli Minister of Education proposed adding the Green Line to maps in Israeli textbooks, the whole campaign and debate around that became about political affiliations. How can they expect us to put them on our maps when they won’t even put their own internationally recognized borders on their own maps?
When we talk about Israel we must identify which Israel we are talking about. Israel 1948? Or Israel 1967? Or Israel after it has reoccupied the West Bank, or the Israel of the check points, or Israel behind the Wall? Let them recognize us and their own borders, and then we will do the same.
DSE: How has the occupation affected Palestinian children’s opinions of Israel and the outside world?
AS: To be honest with you, to our children Israel means one word — occupation. It means things like check points, killing, shooting, taking Palestinians to prison, keeping Palestinians from going to their jobs or to school. We’re not going to lie to you.
They are taking our lands, our water — believe me they are taking our water from right under us and they are selling it back to us! They are selling it back to us, and they are collecting our taxes and keeping the money, and spending it on Jerusalem.
Let them give us something. Olmert promised Abbas that he would remove some of the checkpoints to ease our lives, and he did nothing. And Palestinians know he did nothing. So let them do something.
DSE: Many political analysts say that Hamas’ victory at the polls can be seen largely as a rebuke of Fatah, and not an endorsement of Hamas. Why do you think that Hamas won the elections last year? Will the party attempt to make religion a larger part of Palestinian politics?
AS: When people win elections you can attribute this to different reasons. That could mean a program, an individual, or just popularity. But you must acknowledge that there was a winning program.
In addition to the parliamentary elections, there were elections at different institutions like universities. The results there were not that different than the results in parliament.
When talking about the relations between Fatah and Hamas you must know that these conflicts in Palestinian politics reflect international involvement. These tensions are a direct reaction to this international interference.
Hamas does not lead a religious government. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not religious groups, like some might imagine, they are political movements. These are revolutionary parties, not religious groups.
Here in Palestine, when you use the word ‘Islamic’ in your name, it does not mean you are a religious group. They are political groups, not Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, and are not importing religious ideas into politics.
That said, I think that when you are in power you should be more liberal. We are working on it and we hope to succeed.
posted by Liam at
3:26 PM
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